Author Topic: Really????????  (Read 8036 times)

Gen. Dreedle

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Really????????
« on: November 27, 2011, 08:53:23 AM »
Over in that thread that is supposed to be about the Blowtorch preamp (sans schematics) (note use of recurring theme, to drive up Google rating), one of our regular buddies stated this:

Quote
No. The ONLY thing needed for any controlled listening test is trust in your ears. That's what most opponents to such tests here lack.

Uh, no! We do trust our ears. Which is why we do not need A/B/X DBTs, or any other "controlled test" to tell us which one sounds better.

Sometimes, different units sound close enough, to each other, which can be sufficient. Other times, the differences are obvious. Which one it is is not relevant. The fact one can tell, one way the other, just by "listening", is all that counts. After all, that is what the end user does.

They listen to it.

With music. Not tones, or "sounds". Music.

Something that seems to allude a lot of so-called audiophiles.

Whether they trust their ears, or not, and/or they use a herd mentality (they probably do, most of the time), is beyond our control. All the guy who builds it can do is make sure they are satisfied. And hope the end user thinks, feels, and hears, the same way.

Now, if the guy who designs/builds it does not trust his/her ears.............well, if they don't they better think up a really clever marketing scheme.

Come to think of it..................Bose did sell a boatload of crappy speakers.

Never mind!
"Major Danby, sir."
"Danby. D-A-N-B-Y."
"Take him out and shoot him."
"Sir?"
"I said take him out and shoot him. Can't you hear?"

seagreen

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 02:45:16 PM »
If you can't hear a difference - hopefully an improvement - then why bother?  What's the point?

Silly me...

No double blind testing was used in the making of this post.

Gen. Dreedle

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2011, 09:32:02 AM »
Muntzing!

Now, for a DIYer, different story.
"Major Danby, sir."
"Danby. D-A-N-B-Y."
"Take him out and shoot him."
"Sir?"
"I said take him out and shoot him. Can't you hear?"

seagreen

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 11:06:28 AM »
Good point...

But, I thought that high end audio was a cost no object in the search of musical bliss industry.
No double blind testing was used in the making of this post.

Gen. Dreedle

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 07:36:56 PM »
Back in my days..................

You could say we did reverse Muntzing.

If you added something, and it did not make it sound better, we didn't do it. Our goal was to make the best sounding stuff we could. Not the most expensive.
"Major Danby, sir."
"Danby. D-A-N-B-Y."
"Take him out and shoot him."
"Sir?"
"I said take him out and shoot him. Can't you hear?"

seagreen

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 03:58:00 AM »
No wonder you didn't get to sell to some big conglomerate and buy that Ferrari.

A guy I used to work for had this to say about the attitude of many engineers (and those who pretended to be):

"Complexity is its own reward."
No double blind testing was used in the making of this post.

Gen. Dreedle

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 08:04:23 AM »
I guess we need to give a big "thumbs up", to one of our intrepid members. Taking on the DBT crowd, all by his lonesome.

He gets it! He knows why the truly gifted designers make stuff that sounds better. They listen to it! And they are not afraid to follow their ears.

I may have told this story, long ago. Or maybe recently. (Senior citizen moment.)

A certain "guru" had us make a special "black box", for his CES exhibit. He wanted us to use this fancy resistor, that he heard was supposed to sound good. (But he never actually heard them. He just followed what the rest of the herd was doing. We had never heard them, either.)

Built the unit, plugged it in: "This thing sounds bright."

Got the female offspring, of our industrial designer, to listen to it.

"What am I listening to?"
"Doesn't matter."
"Ok, then why am I listening to it?"
"Just listen to the damn thing, please, and tell me what you think of it. OK?"
(Any insight why we never got along?)
"Sounds too bright. Turn it off."

Eventually, my bidnis pardner wanders by.

"Here, listen to this thing, and tell me what you think of it."
"What is special about it?"
"Not you, too. Just listen to it."
"It is bright. What did you do to it?"
"Used the resistors they wanted me to use."
"Why? Didn't they know they suck?"
"They will now."

I think that is the last time he ever used a part, without listening to it, first.

True story. Yes, anecdotal, and therefore, only useful for entertainment purposes.

Wonder how a very successful audio company grew out of that?

(Obviously not one I was involved with.) (I never had any rich buddies.) (Someone else did.) (And they almost went broke, before they made it big.)

Oh..........one last thing.............

Wonder how many "points", our intrepid member just racked up. Your days are numbered. Enjoy them, while you can!
"Major Danby, sir."
"Danby. D-A-N-B-Y."
"Take him out and shoot him."
"Sir?"
"I said take him out and shoot him. Can't you hear?"

seagreen

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 10:59:09 AM »
So this is a "resistors to riches" story?
No double blind testing was used in the making of this post.

MystereoN

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2011, 12:32:12 PM »
I guess we need to give a big "thumbs up", to one of our intrepid members. Taking on the DBT crowd, all by his lonesome.

He gets it! He knows why the truly gifted designers make stuff that sounds better. They listen to it! And they are not afraid to follow their ears.

I think we all agree with him.
Why is this too hard to understand for some people over there? Until they know how to design circuits to sound better than JC designs, they should be listening and learning from experinced designer.

Never argue with a fool,
they will drag you down to their level,
then beat you with their experience!!!

seagreen

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2011, 02:02:06 PM »
Sorta related, but I didn't really know where to put this otherwise.  Lazy.   :P

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/99157.html

This is not some guy to be ignored.  At least round these heah parts, he's kind of a legend.  In the good sense.
No double blind testing was used in the making of this post.

zinsula

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 09:36:25 AM »
[..]
Oh..........one last thing.............

Wonder how many "points", our intrepid member just racked up. Your days are numbered. Enjoy them, while you can!

Thank you (all) for the the thumbs up. You can imagine what an effort that was for me, my english is not fluent and I have a rather small vocabulary.

Well, it seems that they still moderate my posts. I had a follow up which was not published (as have been in the past). And with "zero feedback" about the reasons for that (yet they advocate the use of feedback, haha).
My esteem for the "know it all" (about plastic corks that is) mod there is low. You cannot play the fair-minded and exemplary guy in public and act in this nasty way behind the scenes.

Anyway, I can't seem to find my "points counter" in the user control panel. I'll let you know about any (un?)expected raise.

MystereoN

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 06:28:35 PM »
@zinsula

some background: http://jockohomo.net/forum/index.php?topic=90.msg877#msg877

You are a "small PITA" over there ;D  Alltogether 11 of your posts were deleted after you post them.
If you are under some kind of moderator supervision and approval, it is known only to moderators.
Never argue with a fool,
they will drag you down to their level,
then beat you with their experience!!!

zinsula

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 11:30:26 PM »
305 vs 316 posts eh?? I found out how to look at that statistics ;-)
Thank you for the hint.
I have a rejection/erasion rate of 3.5%!
JC has hundreds of posts deleted.....but percentage wise not much more. And the General only 2.9%!!!

You see I'm not such a small PITA and therefore deserved well my one month bin and that they are moderating my posts. Let's see for how long.....

Gen. Dreedle

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 11:34:49 AM »
Someone care to PM the secret method, to me?
"Major Danby, sir."
"Danby. D-A-N-B-Y."
"Take him out and shoot him."
"Sir?"
"I said take him out and shoot him. Can't you hear?"

Gen. Dreedle

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Re: Really????????
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 01:17:08 PM »
Well, that was almost obvious! Guess I am spoiled, having Mod Powers, at some other forum. Access to more stuff than I cared to know. It was harder to find some of it, after they changed s/w.

Wurcer: 6 posts.

Thorsten: 14 posts.

EDDYot: 171 posts.

SYborg: 9764 posts.

I can't think of anyone who abused their Mod Powers, at Greaser's Palace. From where I sit, that is one present Mod, and one former Mod. (I bet I can think of another former Mod.) Tells me they are either covering up their tracks, or they have been embroiled in some rows. And their posts were deleted with the ones they (probably) provoked.
"Major Danby, sir."
"Danby. D-A-N-B-Y."
"Take him out and shoot him."
"Sir?"
"I said take him out and shoot him. Can't you hear?"